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 Get your flowers out kids...

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DoseOrdo
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PostSubject: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:27 pm

From Karen Traviss Latest Blog
http://karentraviss.typepad.com/

3. No, I can't reconsider. It's sweet of you to keep asking, but I had to make my decision nearly a year ago. When I was finishing 501st in January this year, I was told about a significant continuity change coming up in the Clone Wars cartoon. (As was mentioned and shown in a couple of books that came out in the summer - this is not confidential information of any kind now.) I was told that the Mandalorians were being revamped as long-standing pacifists who'd given up fighting centuries ago and that Mandalore was now a post-apocalyptic wasteland devastated by war. I was told not to refer to (recent) Mandalorian history because of that, as it was obviously at odds with the old continuity in my novels. That's fairly common procedure for any franchise - but unfortunately it wasn't that simple in practice. The two Commando series - and quite a few older books and comics, come to that -were based entirely on that original history, and basic logic meant that the fundamental plot of the series could never have existed if this had been a pacifist society. Neither could any of the characters or their motives have existed, because they were wholly based on a global warrior culture living on a non-nuked Mandalore. I had some discussion in January with the editor about possible ways around the problem, but after that, I heard nothing to indicate that the position would change, so the plan went ahead to wind up my existing storyline in the two books that were already in the pipeline. It was too late for me to rewrite 501st even if the changes hadn't made that pretty well impossible.

My point of view
Dose will simply call himself and his people True Mandalorians of the old ways and look down upon any Pacifist Mandalorian. Something similar to the Deathwatch Mandalorian split.
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Mesh'la Runi
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:58 pm

Screw that. I just don't consider the new stuff canon at all. I know they make changes all the time and the people who have grown accustomed to one thing always get the shaft when the continuity folks try to retcon, but I'm still going to play my Mandalorian how I've always played her. I'm not letting this decision (which is obviously for the money they are raking in with having it fit into the Clone Wars series) force me to change several years' worth of story.

In my mind, the real Star Wars canon and the Clone Wars cartoon series are separate entities. I'm sure I'm going to hear about how I'm a stubborn idiot now for not bending to the "great will of Lucas" (or rather his subcommittees, etc.) or at least for not accepting the facts, but I don't care. This is one of the most ridiculous changes to something solid that I've seen in a long time.
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DoseOrdo
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:07 pm

so i was searching the web for any hope that "The Essential Atlas" did not clearly state Duchess Satine was head of the Mandalorians and found something interesting...

Now I dont take Wiki as fact, though most is based off fact so I wonder if "The Essential Atlas" provides this info... might have to pick it up.

anyways Wiki on New Mandalorians:
New Mandalorians was the name given to a reformist political organization led by pacifist Duchess Satine during the Clone Wars.

edit HistoryThe New Mandalorians were formed about 730 years before the Battle of Yavin, following a war between the Galactic Republic and the Mandalorians, that devastated Mandalore. The New Mandalorians did away with the old warrior codes that the Mandalorians had followed, instead claiming that the only way the Mandalorians could survive was through being peaceful, neutral and tolerant. Under the influence of the New Mandalorians, the traditional Mandalorian armor became a rare sight on Kalevala
(apparently Mando'yaims new name,) with only a few people choosing the old ways.

Heres where it gets intresting
In 60 BBY, Jaster Mereel formed the True Mandalorians, a Mandalorian organization that soon became embroiled in a war against another Mandalorian faction, the Death Watch. The New Mandalorians rejected both groups, but after the True Mandalorians were eliminated during the Battle of Galidraan in 44 BBY, the Death Watch attempted to kill Duchess Satine, the leader of the New Mandalorians. However, Satine was able to survive the attacks.

During the Clone Wars, Satine advocated that the Mandalorians remain neutral. However, the New Mandalorians eventually gave their support to the former Clone trooper Alpha-Ø2.


So the Mandalorians we see in CW2 are actually Death Watch, possibly the episode is them trying to kill Satine and the Republic protect her...

Also if true then Alpha02 is once again Mandalore after the clone wars... not Shya
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mando-mantis
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:08 pm

(takes a deep breath) NOOOOOO!!! WHY DO YOU SEEK MY TEARS? LUCASFILM? ANSWER MEEEEE!!!!!!

ok, I'm calm. I can accept this, really I can (sniffle.) Always look on the bright side of things... for example there's the Death Watch which should be cool... and I love the entire post-appocalyptic genre so that might turn out ok... and if all else fails this site provides some pretty awesome fanfiction.
Yes, I can live through this. (wanders off singing "I will survive")
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Ryler
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:16 pm

I forsee George Lucas being mobbed at the next convention he appears at by a giant wave of armor clad bodies wearing T-shaped visors.... at least until he calls it off...
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Catika
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:20 pm

Lucas and his whole company are so lucky that they have loyal fans. You'd think we all would have quit after the prequel series, but here we are. We get spoonfed a pretty decent history filled with Mandos and candy, and they friggen take it away. It's kind of hard being a fan of something when you just get ass-raped all of the time.

I guess in the end all this really messes up is the Clone Wars era. From my understanding, the Legacy era Mandos seem to follow what we're used to under Alpha. It's unfortunate that KT's story is getting slaughtered so they could put a Moulin Rouge reference in TCW. But whatever. I'm not part of the LucasArts company making big bucks to fuck around with canon.

I do have to admit a post-apocalyptic Mandalore is bad ass and I'm already thinking about rewriting my Mando characters into that.
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Ms.MaraJade
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:28 am

Quote:
In my mind, the real Star Wars canon and the Clone Wars cartoon series are separate entities.


I'm totally agreeing with Mesh'la's statement on that. Yes, I consider the Clone Wars a fun past time, but the movies are canon. I'll even go so far as to consider some of the EU canon, but I won't accept all of it. For example, I won't acknowledge the Yuuzhan Vong storyline as canon...even though I read it.

At this point, I think we as fans can just pick and choose what we want to enjoy. I haven't taken every storyline out there for "fact" in a fictional universe anyway. Yeah, it sucks about totally revamping the Mandalorians. Not sure why anyone would want to take a culture that thrives in armor and weaponry and make them...pacificts??? Doesn't make any sense. It's like politics. Politicians only do what they want anyway so why bother? Razz

What's the true canon of Star Wars in my opinion? John Williams!!

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/
Quote:
But today I'm reacting, because somebody blurted out something on a forum, and the rumours started. Yes, for once a rumour is actually true; I've withdrawn from the sequel to Imperial Commando 501st, which was going to be my final Star Wars novel. I had issues over contractual matters and working practices that still showed no signs of being resolvable after a couple of years, so I told the publisher that I would not be doing the book.


Okay, call me selfish, but see that line above in Purple? Nooooooooo!!!!!!! How is the storyline going to end now??? No
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Catika
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:15 am

As upset as I am, good for her. I wouldn't want to make any more money for Lucas anyway.

I haven't read ImpCom yet so don't spoil anything, but it sounds to me like there's no real ending to it. That's disappointing, but still, I'm glad she's sticking it to the man.
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Ms.MaraJade
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:38 am

Catika wrote:
As upset as I am, good for her. I wouldn't want to make any more money for Lucas anyway.

I haven't read ImpCom yet so don't spoil anything, but it sounds to me like there's no real ending to it. That's disappointing, but still, I'm glad she's sticking it to the man.


Oh, I'm not bashing Ms. Traviss, not in any way. She's got her reasons and her rights to drop from Lucas, and I won't hold that against her in any respect. It's just as always...timing. The timing sucks. It might not have been such a blow to me if she had been able to pull the plug after Order 66. Even though it was left open-ended, I had a feeling of closure with it. 501st just opened too many doors in the plot, and I guess we have to treat it like Sev's fate...it can go in any direction the audience imagines it can.
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DoseOrdo
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:24 pm

I love Fallout so the wastland Mandalore sounds awesome. Only problem is that my character is founded on SWG, so in the GCW time frame. This is like 750 years later so I imagine with the tech and time its pretty close to reformed by now.
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Mesh'la Runi
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:25 pm

Ms.MaraJade wrote:
Okay, call me selfish, but see that line above in Purple? Nooooooooo!!!!!!! How is the storyline going to end now??? No


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Cody MacArthur Fett
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:43 pm

You know, I think I know what this about, they're trying to turn the Mandalorians into Med Max versions of Jedi.

Also, Mandalore got hit by the Genesis Device after season 2 of Clone Wars. Think about it, it makes sense.
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Melyc'inya
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:50 am

Forgive my ignorance, but...Med Max? scratch

(Also, I am surprised that Dae'buir has posted nothing in this thread, either way. ;P I've been waiting with bated breath for a rant one way or t'other.)
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Mesh'la Runi
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:54 pm

Melyc'inya wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but...Med Max? scratch


I'm pretty sure he meant "Mad Max."
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Gratulor's body
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PostSubject: Re: Get your flowers out kids...   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:49 pm

I ignore that, personally. I see the New Mandalorians as a kind of a heretic faction similar to the Death Watch and the Neo-Crusaders when thiking in universe, but the nuked Mandalore I ignore completely. The reason for me to ignore it is because it adds nothing to the continuity besides complications, since the preceding continuity has been very consistent and made sense for everything. Mandalore as a forest world makes sense because they were nomads, they didn't act from Mandalore for the majority of the Mandalorian history so the Jedi and the Republic had no reason to attack it. A nuked Mandalore would simply make the Mandalorians non-nomadic and therefore a simple military, like all of the militaries in the clone wars series.... they're all homegrown. That they were pacifists makes them even more alike all the previous cultures in the series, with the Twi'leks and the Rodians both retconned extensively as well. I think this series offers much, much, much more inconsistencies than any other SW media before it, but I can't understand why they have to collide. Why can't they make stuff fit? Of all the planets and species in SW media, why can't they allow it to fit? That I won't understand. tongue

But yeah, it's all fiction so we as fans can cherry pick. I suggest we do, since there's nothing we can say to change it. It's all about money for companies, and we're not the majority... sadly.
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